Friday, 21 June 2013
Eastern Region E Numbers
This piece of study directly relates to the Forsythe Collection in the NRM Search Engine archives. The text in an earlier version was previously in my own website. When this upload was made another one went to Facebook Notes.
__________________________________________
Corrected to 21.06.2013
EASTERN REGION E NUMBERS
For a fuller understanding of British Railways pocket timetable practice, an appreciation of the regional referencing systems used is beneficial. Once these systems can be listed a picture of what was issued becomes clearer. In the following paper an attempt to catalogue the known use of ER references is undertaken. The system was not totally constant throughout the period, but the core annotation was an E number. Earliest use may be E400 in 1951.
The pattern that follows consists of the E numbers in numerical order followed by the timetable name, and the extremities of the known dates to which the number was applied to this issue. The known dates reflect my collection. Thus some WYPTE lines may appear to cease to use the E number earlier than the probable actual date of May 1982. This reflects missing timetables. It will also be possible to guess where dates may be extended by comparing sequences. This has not been done nor has a full account of different timetable types been made. Some cryptic notes about type for individual entries may be seen as my working notes.
Obviously anomalies exist. Perhaps the most intriguing arise in the later 1980s. At this time, York took over promotional responsibility for certain LMR lines, and so E numbers exist for routes like the Cumbrian Coast. Likewise Birmingham took over Anglian Provincial/Regional lines and ceased using E numbers. The routes which it appears can claim the longest E number life are former ER routes which were not passed to the Birmingham office (the former NER routes had operated their own system references prior to the ER takeover). So, some NSE routes carried on using E numbers for a period, thus E408 was used continuously for Cambridge route timetables between at least 1957 and 1988. Another group of candidates (as time has passed) come from North Eastern local services (see below).
E numbers remained in use by some sectors for a very long time as careful perusal of the list will show - essentially, I believe, material from the York publicity office (CAS EAST >RRNE> Northern Spirit>Arriva Trains Northern) will carry E numbers (despite the fact that once York was the NER office!). E41, E61, E63 and E65 rival E408 above in lasting a solid 30 years from 1972-2002 which since this was a period of continual change in many respects, as our leaders tell us, was some achievement. In 1987 a new series from E1 was issued for Intercity cards. These show how E numbers are being issued off the former Eastern region. I am fairly definite E numbers came to an end when in 2003 ATN moved to a new 1/3 A4 timetable format. Timetables issued in the autumn of 2002 were the last to carry them. This usage is not yet entirely reflected in this table which was first prepared in the early 1990s.
E numbers were not universal on the Eastern Region though nearly so. Another system known in the late 1950's used PP/xxx/xx as the identity mark. Early Paytrain guides appear under a C numbering scheme (c1970). Timetables also carried other reference numbers, most noticeably a BR35xxx/xx number. This too was often static for decades.
The arrival of feedback (and even unsolicited donations of relevant material) is a good excuse to do some updating so it is encouraged. In this regard I wish to thank Duncan Burnett of Sheffield.
E1 Scunthorpe-Doncaster-London IC card 1987-1993
E2 Retford-Newark-London IC card 1990-1993
E3 Scarborough-York-London IC card 1987-1993
E4 Bradford-Leeds-London IC card 1988-1993
E5 Boston-Grantham-London IC card 1987-1993
E6 Sunderland-Newcastle-London IC card 1988-1993
E7 Durham-Darlington-London IC card 1989-1993
E8 Yarmouth-Norwich-London IC card 1987-1988
E8 Middlesbrough-Darlington-London IC card 1989-1993
E9 Ipswich-Manningtree-London IC card 1987-1988
E9 Peterborough-London IC card 1992
E10 Diss-Stowmarket-London IC card 1987-1988
E10 Grimsby-Lincoln-London IC card 1989-1993
E11 Huddersfield-Wakefield-London IC card 1988-1993
E12 Harrogate-London IC card 1988-1993
E13 Edinburgh-Berwick-London IC card 1988-1993
E14 Aberdeen-Dundee-London IC card 1988-1993
E15
E16 Hull-London IC Card 1990-1993
E17 Aberdeen-Edinburgh-Newcastle IC card 1989-1993
E18 Darlington-Newcastle-Glasgow IC card 1989-1990
E18 Glasgow-Newcastle-York IC card 1991-1993
E19 Edinburgh-Newcastle-York IC card 1989-1993
E20 Edinburgh-Newcastle-Peterborough IC card 1989-1993
E21 Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool (E170 cross refs on tt) 1981-1982
E22 Durham-Darlington-York IC card (from E30) 1991-1993
E23 Darlington-Durham-Newcastle IC Card (from E31) 1991-1993
E24
E25
E26 Scotland-North East-Cleveland-London IC Ubt 1989-1991
E27 Yorkshire-Humberside-London 1989-1991
E28
E29
E30 Durham-Darlington-York IC card (onto E22) 1991
E31 Darlington-Durham-Newcastle IC Card (onto E23) 1991
E32
E33
E34
E35
E36
E37
E38
E39 Lincoln-Nottingham 1984
E40
E41 Hull-Scarborough or vv 1972-2002
E42 Spalding-Peterborough 1972-1980
E42 Lincoln-Spalding-Peterborough/Cambridge 1980-1982
E42 Doncaster-Cambridge or Peterborough 1983-1992
E43 Doncaster-Cleethorpes 1976-1986
E43 Leeds/Sheffield-Doncaster-Cleethorpes 1989
E43 Cleethorpes-Manchester Airport 1998-2002
E44 Barton on Humber - Cleethorpes 1974-1976
E44 Hull-Cleethorpes Humberlink 1981-1998
E45 Sheffield-Retford-Cleethorpes 1972
E45 Retford-Cleethorpes 1976-1977
E45 Huddersfield-Lincoln 1998-2002
E46 Newark-Cleethorpes 1972-1992
E47 Lincoln/Grantham-Skegness 1972-1986
E47 Derby-Skegness 1989-1992
E48 Lincoln-Sheffield 1972-1974
E48 Sheffield-Lincoln/Cleethorpes 1978-1984
E48 Sheffield-Retford-Lincoln/Cleethorpes 1986-1992
E49 Grantham-Nottingham 1972-1987
E50 Sheffield-New Mills 1977-1982
E51 Hull-Goole/Selby(-York/Leeds) 1978-1993
E52 Huddersfield-Clayton West-Sheffield 1972-1982
E52A Huddersfield-Clayton West-Sheffield 1972
E53 Leeds-Harrogate-York 1972-1982
E53A Leeds-Harrogate-York 1972
E54 Leeds-Goole 1972-1982
E55 Leeds/Bradford-Ilkley 1972+1973-1982
E55A Ditto but West Riding issue 1972
E56 Sheffield-Pontefract-York Paytrain issue? 1972?
E56A Ditto West Riding issue 1972
E56 Ditto 1973?-2002
by now title is York-Sheffield (this line has a very
complicated tt history)
E57
E58 Chelmsford-London 1986
E59 Hull-Sheffield 1998-2002
E60 Hull-Doncaster/Leeds 1998-2002
E61 Newcastle-Darlington-Teesside or Middlesbrough-Gateshead MC 1972-2002
E62 Bishop Auckland - Saltburn 1972-1974
E62A Ditto Darlington 1974-1981
E62 Ditto Saltburn (some are from Stanhope) 1989-1993
E62 Darlington-Saltburn 1974-1981
E62 Newcastle/Bishop Auckland-Saltburn 1998-2002
E63 Newcastle-Carlisle or Sunderland-Carlisle 1972-2002
E63a Hadrian's Wall Bus 2000
E64 Newcastle-South Shields 1972-1981
E65 Middlesbrough-Whitby 1972-2002
E66 Newcastle-Berwick-(Edinburgh) or Berwick-Newcastle 1972-1993
E66 Chathill Newcastle 1998-2002
E67 Newcastle-York 1989-1991
E68-70 are unknown
E71 Ipswich-Felixstowe/Lowestoft 1972-1987
E72 Cambridge-Ipswich 1972-1988
E73 Norwich-Cambridge 1972-1988
E74 Norwich-Yarmouth-Lowestoft 1972-1988
E75 Norwich-Sheringham 1972-1988
E76 Ipswich-Norwich-Yarmouth 1975-1976
E77 Kings Lynn-Ely 1976-1982
E78-79 are unknown
E80 Windermere-Oxenholme 1987-1991
E81 Wickford-Southminster 1972-1981
E81 Carlisle-Barrow in Furness 1988-1992
York by now has lost the Southminster line
E82 Sudbury-Colchester 1975-1979
E83 Eastern Counties and the North (see onto E178) 1958-1962
E83 Colchester-Clacton-Walton 1972-1979
E84-89 are unknown
E90 Leeds/Bradford-Skipton 1972-1982
E91 Leeds-Bradford-Hebden Bridge 1972-1981
E92 Leeds-Huddersfield-Marsden 1972-1982
E93 Doncaster-Selby-York 1972-1991
E94 Leeds-York 1972-1982
E94 Sheffield-Doncaster-Cleethorpes/Hull 1991-1992
E95 Leeds-Wakefield-Doncaster 1973-1981
E95 Sheffield-Retford-Lincoln/Cleethorpes 1990
E96 Leeds-Selby 1972-1981
E97 Leeds-Barnsley-Sheffield 1972-1982
E98 Sheffield-Doncaster 1972-1983
E99 Doncaster-Goole 1972-1980
E100-103 are unknown
E104 Newcastle-the Coast 1972-1976
E105
E106 Leeds/Bradford-Ilkley 1968-1969
E107
E108 York-Cardiff 1971-1973
E109-121 are unknown
E122 Leeds-Hull 1968-1980
E123-131 are unknown
E132 Newcastle-Doncaster 1972-1982
E133-135 are unknown
E136 Bradford-Leeds-London (see also E156) 1970-1987
E137 Leeds-London card 1986
E138 Leeds-Scarborough 1971-1990
E139-143 are unknown
E144 Leeds-Halifax-Liverpool 1971-1982
E145
E146 Leeds-Bradford-Skipton-Morecambe 1972-1978
E146 Leeds-Morecambe/Carlisle 1978-1993
E147
E148 Leeds-Manchester card 1972-1973
E149
E150 Newcastle-Durham-London card 1969-1978
Ditto folder 1978-1984
E150 Sunderland-Newcastle-Durham-London Folder HST 1986-1987
E151
E152 As next but card 1970-1973
E152 Hull-London (Folder CI and HST) 1974-1987
E153
E154 York-London 1968-1971
E155
E156 Bradford-Leeds-London KC card and card folder (see also E136) 1970-1981
E157-159 are unknown
E160 As next but card 1968-1979
E160 Hull-Leeds-Liverpool (Folder CI) 1980-1981
E161
E162 Chesterfield-Sheffield-Liverpool cards 1972-1974
E162 Humberside-South Yorkshire-Liverpool 1980-1986
E163
E164 Teeside-London KC card+HST card 1969-1979
Ditto HST folder 1978-1981
Ditto Cleveland-London KC HST Folder 1981-1984
Ditto Intercity small folder (v.rare!) 1987-1988
E165
E166 North East-West Country 1975-1976
E167
E168 North East-South Wales 1974-1975
E168 North East-South West (Folder CI and HST) 1977-1985
E168 North East-Cardiff 1976-1977
E169
E170 Newcastle-Liverpool (fundamentally) 1979-1999
as MXE170 it was still being issued in 2003
E171
E172
E173
E174 Leeds-Rotherham-Sheffield 1970-1972
E175
E176
E177
E178 Eastern Counties - East Midlands and the North 1969-1979
(see from E83)
E179
E180 York-Selby-London 1970-1983
E180 York-London 1983-1986
E180 Scarborough-York-London 1986-1987
E180 York-Leeds 1998-2002
E181 Leeds-York only, card folder 1972-1973
E181 Leeds-Carlisle/Morecambe 1998-2002
E182 Leeds-Harrogate only, card folder 1972-1973
E183
E184 Leeds-Huddersfield only, card folder 1973
E185 Leeds-Wakefield only, card folder 1973
E186 Leeds-Sheffield only, card folder 1973
E187 Leeds-Doncaster only, card folder 1973
E188 Sheffield-Doncaster only, card folder 1973
E189-199 are unknown
E200 Doncaster-Sheffield- Lincoln - Eastern Counties 1973-1979
E201
E202 Inter City Services to and from Stevenage 1975-1977
E202 Principal Train Services Stevenage HST Folder 1979-1980
E203-207 are unknown
E208 Royston-London 1974-1977
E209
E210 Knebworth-London 1974-1977
E211
E212 Brookmans Park-London 1974-1976
E213
E214 Old Street-Drayton Park card 1976
E215
E216 Hertford-Hitchin 1976
E217
E218 Welwyn Garden City-Moorgate GN Electrics folders 1976-1981
E219
E220 Hertford North-Moorgate GN Electrics folders 1976-1981
E221
E222 Wood Green-Moorgate GN Electrics folders 1979-1981
E223
E224 Royston-Kings Cross GN Electrics folders 1978-1981
E225
E226 Peterborough-Huntingdon-London (Yourtrain) 1978-1981
E226 Peterborough-Huntingdon-London (Folder CI+HST+Intercity) 1982-1988
E227
E228 Royston-Cambridge 1978-1981
E229-299 are unknown
except
E290 Named Trains from and to (ER London termini) 1957-1962
E300 Inter City Services from Newcastle Sunderland Durham 1972-1978
E300 Inter City from Leeds 1983-1986
E301 Inter City from Newcastle/Durham 1983-1984
E302 Inter City Services from Darlington Hartlepool Middlesbrough 1972-1976
E302 Inter City from Doncaster 1973-1985
E303 Inter City Services from Sheffield and Chesterfield 1972-1983
E304 Inter City Services from Hull 1972-1973
E304 Principal Train Services from Selby 1983
E305 Principal Services from LLS and Fenchurch Street 1969-1972
E305 Inter City from Wakefield 1984-1985
E306 Inter City Services from London Kings Cross 1971-1975
E307 Inter City Services from Peterborough and Grantham 1969-1970
E307 Ditto without Grantham 1972-1979
E308 Inter City Services from Doncaster 1972-1977
E309 Inter City from Hull 1985
Huge gap to E400
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E400 London-Hull/Leeds/Bradford/Harrogate 1951-1961
E401
E402 London-Ely-Kings Lynn-Hunstanton 1959-1964
E403 London-Sheffield 1956-1969
E403A Ditto card 1959-1960
E403 Ditto 1970-1971
E404 London-Cleethorpes 1955-1980
E404 Cleethorpes-London 1980-1988
E405 London-Doncaster 1957-1960
E405 London-Doncaster-Scunthorpe (See onto E437) 1968-1975
E406 As next but also Scarborough-Saltburn 1955-1964
E406 London-Bridlington-Filey 1967-1968
E406 London-Peterborough-Doncaster-Scunthorpe (see from E437) 1976-1977
E407 London-Lincoln 1959-1965
E408 Cambridge-London (various folders and cards) 1957-1976
E408 Kings Lynn-London (see also E450) 1976-1988
E409 Bury St Edmunds-London 1956-1960
E409 London-Spalding-Louth 1964-1965
E409 London-Grimsby 1970
E410 London-Scunthorpe 1956-1961
E410 Cambridge-London 1988-1989
E411 London-Huddersfield/Halifax 1956-1964
E411 London-Huddersfield 1966-1967
E412 Yarmouth-Lowestoft-London or vice versa 1956-1984
E412 Yarmouth-Diss-Manningtree-Stowmarket-London 1985
E412 Yarmouth-Norwich (and others)-London 1985-1987
E413 London-Clacton 1970-1971
E414 London-Berwick Upon Tweed 1958-1964
E414 London-Colchester-Clacton (see also E417) 1971-1973
E414 London-Colchester 1970-1971+ 1973-1981
E415 London-Gainsborough 1961-1963
E415 London-Kelvedon 1973-1976
E415 London-Marks Tey 1981-1982
E416 Sheffield-Penistone-Manchester 1960-1969
E417 London-Clacton/Walton (see also E414) 1952-1967
E417 Huntingdon-London 1972-1976
E418 Colchester-London (see also E414) or vv 1956-1966
E419 London-Sheringham 1956-1965
E419B London-Norwich (no other stats, see onto E448) 1963 card 1964 CILF
E419 Ipswich-London 1970-1971
E420 Chelmsford-London 1956-1962
E420 London-Witham 1962-1980
E421 London-Southend 1972-1975
E421 London-Southend Victoria 1976-1981
E422 Maldon East-Witham and connections 1960
E422 London-Walton on the Naze (see onto E426) 1972-1981
E423 Braintree and Bocking-Witham (see also E435-6) 1958-1960
E423 London-Harwich 1972-1981
E424
E425
E426 Clacton-Shenfield 1980-1981
E426 London-Chelmsford-Walton 1981-1982
E427 London LLS-Harlow Town card 1962
E428 Ely-Norwich 1963-64
E429
E430 Barking-Gospel Oak (see also E456) 1981-1982
E431 Colchester-Clacton-Walton 1963
E432 London-Norwich (see from E449) 1966-1973
E432 Norwich-Diss-etc-London 1973-1982
E433 Ipswich-Chelmsford 1963-1980
E434
E435 Braintree-Witham-Maldon (see from E423) 1962-1963
E435 Maldon-Witham 1964
E436 Braintree-Witham (folders and cards) 1970-1982
E437 London-Peterborough 1964-1965
E437 London-Peterborough-Retford 1969-1974
E437 Retford-Peterborough_London 1975-1976
E437 London-Peterborough-Doncaster-Scunthorpe (see onto E403) 1976
E437 Scunthorpe-Doncaster-London (Folder HST) 1979-1982
E438 London-Retford 1967-1968
E439 London-Barnsley 1964-1982
E439 Sheffield-London HST folder 1983-1984
E440 London-Rotherham (folders and cards) 1964-1971
E440 Sheffield-Chesterfield 1982-1991
E441
E442 Grantham-Lincoln 1959-1960
E443 Sheffield-Dronfield-Chesterfield 1983-1984
E443 Hull-York card 1985-1986
E444 Hull-New Holland 1959-1960
E445 Lincoln-Cleethorpes 1963
E446 London-Chesterfield 1964-1971
E447 Norwich-Mundesley-Melton Constable 1959-1960
E448 London-Norwich (only stats see from E419B) 1964-1965
E448 London-Colchester Intercity small folder 1984-1988
E449 Wickford-Southminster see onto E81 1958-1960
E449 Norwich-London (see also E432) (no other sta) 1967-1968+1981-1985
E449 Ditto cards 1970-1980
E450 Boston-Lincoln 1959-1960
E450 Kings Lynn-Ely-London (see onto E408) 1972-1976
E451 Norwich-Yarmouth-Lowestoft (see onto E74) 1958-1959
E452 Norwich-Dereham-Kings Lynn/Wells 1959-1964
E452 London-Bishop's Stortford 1975-1981
E453 Romford-Upminster 1958-1960
E454 Sheffield-Barnsley-Leeds 1963-1969
E455 Lincoln-Derby 1961
E456 Yarmouth-Lowestoft 1958
E456 Kentish Town-Barking (see E430) 1960-1961
E456 Liverpool Street-Shenfield 1976
E457
E458 Cambridge-Harwich and Bury-Marks Tey 1959-1960
E458 London -Billericay-Southend Victoria 1976-1977
E459
E460 Cambridge-Peterborough-The North 1961
E460 London-Southend Central (see also E421) 1977-1981
E461 Audley End- Bartlow 1958-1963
E461 London-Wickford-Southend Victoria (see also E421) 1981-1982
E462 Trains from Sheffield for Businessmen 1968-1969
E463
E464 Sheffield-Penistone-Huddersfield 1968-1969
E465 Sheffield-Grimsby-Cleethorpes 1966-1969
E466
E467
E468 Norwich-Dereham-Kings Lynn 1968-1969
gap to E474
E474 Norwich-Sheringham 1967-1969
E476 Cambridge St Ives 1968-69
Huge gap from E477 to E522 save
E484 Manor Park-Liverpool Street 1959
E522 Doncaster-Sheffield 1956-1965
E522 Sheffield-Doncaster-Hull 1972-1984
E523 Doncaster-Scunthorpe 1959-1966
E524 Sheffield-Barnsley 1960-1964
E525 Dronfield-Sheffield/Chesterfield 1965
E526-528 are unknown
E529 London-Worksop 1960-1961
E530 Lincoln-Retford-Sheffield 1966
huge gap till
E600
E601
E602
E603 Liverpool Street-Rochford Peak Hours Services card 1970-1971
E604
E605 Liverpool Street-Brentwood Ditto 1970-1971
E606 Liverpool Street-Ingatestone Ditto 1970-1971
E607 Liverpool Street-Marks Tey Ditto 1970-1971
E608
E609
E610 Liverpool Street-Chingford Ditto 1978
E611 Liverpool Street-Weeley Ditto 1970-1971
E612 Liverpool Street- Thorpe le Soken Ditto 1970-1971
E613
E614
E615
E616
E617 Liverpool Street-Kelvedon Ditto 1970-1971
E618
E619 Liverpool Street-Chadwell Heath Ditto 1970-1971
Copyright R N Forsythe
Tuesday, 18 June 2013
Culture minister re-assures
Thanks to my FB friend Thomas Edmondson for link
This is at least encouraging - Culture Minister says 'Museums not closing'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22948171
followed up with
The solution to the national museum funding problem http://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/25062013-national-museums-to-be-allowed-to-access-reserves .
This is at least encouraging - Culture Minister says 'Museums not closing'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22948171
followed up with
The solution to the national museum funding problem http://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/25062013-national-museums-to-be-allowed-to-access-reserves .
Wednesday, 12 June 2013
The Archbishop of York is concerned
The controversy over the future of the National Railway Museum at York is now in the Archbishop of York's in tray .
Saturday, 8 June 2013
The Story Reaches Breakfast
The
last news story on BBC Breakfast this morning a few minutes before 10 am. The
plight of the Science Museum Group with the A4s to the fore. The museum
contributor was David Fleming head of the National Museums on
Merseyside. Of course my solution to the NRM was not there. It can stay a
free museum by removing it from government and making the rail industry
pay. A win win situation.
Wednesday, 5 June 2013
Ian Blatchford on the BBC
Worth making a headline although it is discussed two posts down. Today it has been the head of the Science Museum Group with a dire statement on BBC. Let me say clearly if the situation is that bad, there is enough money in the British rail industry to carry its own museum paid by a levy on players in that industry. And if they don't want to do it, government could force them. You want to run, own, maintain trains on the network. You will pay this levy. And if the museum is made more accountable, no bad thing.
And then in the same day one reads a closure denial also a BBC report.
And then in the same day one reads a closure denial also a BBC report.
Tuesday, 4 June 2013
A Daily Mail Story
A good read http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333385/Record-breaking-steam-locomotive-Mallard-goes-display-sister-trains-time-mark-75th-anniversary-126mph-journey.html and some wonderful pictures. But do you agree with the thesis?
The paper says
'This is a very special sight because here we have a scene that hasn't been seen since the 1930s. We haven't seen this for 75 years or so.'
How accurate is this? Surely at any time through to the mid 1960s, A4s could have assembled en echelon? If the debate is about garter blue and skirts, one of them on display is not in that state. And even if you focus on that, presumably it was possible into the 1940s. The 25th aniversary of the record was in 1963. I shall look into what if anything was done then. Of course, the Germans think the record is theirs. As you can tell I am simply uncomfortable when Daily Mail hype carries away a museum.One of two of the people who have left comments with the paper have wised up to this.
Then I opened Wikipedia and was reminded "On the weekend of 5 July 2008, Mallard was taken outside for the first time in years and displayed beside the three other A4s that are resident in the UK, thus reuniting them for the first time since preservation."
David Farms was there and wrote this "Sunday 5th July. Wikipedia is not totally correct though. Mallard in Steam having been outside on a number of occasions prior to this date, Sir Nigel Gresley in steam as stand by for the "Special" and Bittern cosmetically restored as Silver Link were displayed for about two hours outside NRM. Mallard having pulled a "Special" from Doncaster. After that I believe. it took the special to Scarborough and back. Scarborough council having paid for the turntable there to be renovated." The question now is whether in 2008 there were three or four together at York?
And whilst you look into this an interesting resource is here.
I grant that when the six are together that will be a novelty that cannot have happened since at least 1963 when Mallard was withdrawn.
A Railway Magazine feature August 2013 p14 details a late occasion when six BR A4s were together. It was May 12th 1966 at Aberdeen Ferryhill shed.
The paper says
Record-breaking steam locomotive Mallard goes on display with two sister trains for first time to mark 75th anniversary of 126mph journey
- In a scene not witnessed since the Thirties the three trains sit beside each other at York's National Railway Museum
'This is a very special sight because here we have a scene that hasn't been seen since the 1930s. We haven't seen this for 75 years or so.'
How accurate is this? Surely at any time through to the mid 1960s, A4s could have assembled en echelon? If the debate is about garter blue and skirts, one of them on display is not in that state. And even if you focus on that, presumably it was possible into the 1940s. The 25th aniversary of the record was in 1963. I shall look into what if anything was done then. Of course, the Germans think the record is theirs. As you can tell I am simply uncomfortable when Daily Mail hype carries away a museum.One of two of the people who have left comments with the paper have wised up to this.
Then I opened Wikipedia and was reminded "On the weekend of 5 July 2008, Mallard was taken outside for the first time in years and displayed beside the three other A4s that are resident in the UK, thus reuniting them for the first time since preservation."
David Farms was there and wrote this "Sunday 5th July. Wikipedia is not totally correct though. Mallard in Steam having been outside on a number of occasions prior to this date, Sir Nigel Gresley in steam as stand by for the "Special" and Bittern cosmetically restored as Silver Link were displayed for about two hours outside NRM. Mallard having pulled a "Special" from Doncaster. After that I believe. it took the special to Scarborough and back. Scarborough council having paid for the turntable there to be renovated." The question now is whether in 2008 there were three or four together at York?
And whilst you look into this an interesting resource is here.
I grant that when the six are together that will be a novelty that cannot have happened since at least 1963 when Mallard was withdrawn.
A Railway Magazine feature August 2013 p14 details a late occasion when six BR A4s were together. It was May 12th 1966 at Aberdeen Ferryhill shed.
Alarm Bells Ring
From my Facebook
Would it seem like a decade of mismanagement exemplified in the 4472 restoration and the allegedly cost free Mallard party that gets you to this http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchesters-museum-science-industry-faces-4044896
? For the railway museum I say cut it loose from government and hand it to the railway industry and the enthusiast.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Despite my great admiration for the NRM those who follow this blog will wise up to the thought that my own exposure to the inner workings of the operation and my reading of the media have led me to the conclusion it has been management light for quite some time. Over the last decade or so the parent SMG group has been in the same dock (reflect how Andrew Scott had to move from York to London to cover another's hiccup). Now if this report is anything like accurate, the inevitable cannot be postponed for a lot longer.
I think there is a solution, I have given it above. But regardless of what I think, the real importance is that there is a proper debate. The NRM has fought shy of the media for about eight months now. That is not how you have a debate. Why does not the Institute of Railway Studies organise a proper debate in York about the future of the museum? I have every reason to be concerned with a vast amount of my life's work there. However we did put safeguarding clauses into the sale contract against a change of circumstance.
Other reporting (please send links)
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10460385.National_Railway_Museum_under_threat_from_funding_cuts/
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10460528.National_Media_Museum__under_threat_if_cuts_continue_/
http://library.prospect.org.uk/id/2013/00751?_ts=50274
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22781573 The Science Museum Group boss with a worrying message.
http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2013-06-07/york-mp-lobbies-over-future-of-national-railway-museum/ York MP calls for a debate.
Would it seem like a decade of mismanagement exemplified in the 4472 restoration and the allegedly cost free Mallard party that gets you to this http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchesters-museum-science-industry-faces-4044896
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Despite my great admiration for the NRM those who follow this blog will wise up to the thought that my own exposure to the inner workings of the operation and my reading of the media have led me to the conclusion it has been management light for quite some time. Over the last decade or so the parent SMG group has been in the same dock (reflect how Andrew Scott had to move from York to London to cover another's hiccup). Now if this report is anything like accurate, the inevitable cannot be postponed for a lot longer.
I think there is a solution, I have given it above. But regardless of what I think, the real importance is that there is a proper debate. The NRM has fought shy of the media for about eight months now. That is not how you have a debate. Why does not the Institute of Railway Studies organise a proper debate in York about the future of the museum? I have every reason to be concerned with a vast amount of my life's work there. However we did put safeguarding clauses into the sale contract against a change of circumstance.
Other reporting (please send links)
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10460385.National_Railway_Museum_under_threat_from_funding_cuts/
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10460528.National_Media_Museum__under_threat_if_cuts_continue_/
http://library.prospect.org.uk/id/2013/00751?_ts=50274
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22781573 The Science Museum Group boss with a worrying message.
http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2013-06-07/york-mp-lobbies-over-future-of-national-railway-museum/ York MP calls for a debate.
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